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Interview:
Aaron Hemphill: a Libra Angus Andrews: an Aries Julian Gross: a Libra March 30, 2004 Bottom of The Hill San Francisco Watch We Fenced...video now!
Watch There's Always...video!
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Liars: (Angus) Well ... part of our whole thing is that we all play all the instruments. That's the big deal about our arrangements - we're all comfortable with one another playing each other's instruments. That said, I'm Angus... I'm Aaron, ... and I'm Julian. (Angus) Now what's interesting here is that I'm an Aries and they're both Libras and that helps... makes it easy.
V V: So is it correct that you guys met at Cal Arts in Pasadena? What were you studying?
Liars: (Angus) That's right. Julian and I were both there for photography, but if you know anything about Cal Arts, the best part about it is that you don't really Have to study photography. So we ended up doing a lot of messing around, in every medium really. And Aaron was working at the record store down the street and came to live in the studio where Julian and I were working. Inevitably with Aaron in there, and some materials, we sort-of began to make stuff.
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Liars: (Julian) It's the whole package that makes it so exciting. It's working with all the mediums. (Angus) I still get a big kick just out of making a record... and then getting it on vinyl! Or even on a CD - it's still something that just wows me!
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Liars: (Aaron) It was made by a friend Cody (Critcheloe) from Kansas City. He's in a band called the SSion (pronounced shun). It's very much a visual group that he has: all pre-recorded music and lots of dancing - very Broadway. We ran into him some time ago and he was the first person we asked to do it because we loved his stuff and we loved his style and thought that it would fit - and we thought that we could trust him to do whatever he wanted to do. And yeah! he just made this prodigious thing.
VV: So you didn't give him a script or concepts?
Liars: (Julian) Yeah - we did... like Angus and I sat down for 3 hours and wrote this huge story down and gave it to him. BUT we specifically told him he didn't have to use any of it, and that really, it was his piece to make however he wanted to. (Angus) He didn't follow our script and that was Really Good. In the end we wanted him to just do it, as he would. But we've done other things since. Julian just made a piece - we did a cover of a Germs song called "Sex Boy" and Julian made the video! It had Matt Dillon in it for a while but... (Julian) and it had Darby. They were both in it for a while but for some sort of legal reasons we had to cut them out. We even tried changing their faces and stuff, but it didn't work. So now it's two other people that just look... stupid.
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Liars: (Julian) Oh there's no real concept - it's just (kind-of) stupid (laughs). It's just fun. (Angus) We made it in Flash, the animation program. (Julian) I used to do a lot of web design stuff, so it was the only motion graphics program I knew how to use pretty well, which is not very good as far as outputting the video goes but... (Angus) yeah, but that will be on our next single which is coming out - there's that video and also another video which I made for a song we made... and that one is even less interesting to talk about (laughs) - in the sense that it's a very ambient song and I just used some images that I'd found in the research doing the record.
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Liars: (Angus) Right. There's obviously an enourmous wealth of that stuff that we never really used so I thought ...
V V: Is there another video that ...
Liars: (Angus) Yeah, that Karen's doing. It's for the single that's coming out except it didn't get to make it on the CD but it'll be out soon. So that's for the song "We Fenced..." and that one's pretty crazy because she just covered us in enormous amounts of blood, fake blood... (Julian) We're all curious to see what she's made because there's a whole series of random different parts... (Angus) Like I was doing synchronized dancing in the rain and stuff and then covered in blood. We've been on tour for a while and she's been editing it so... (Julian) It's done in the next day or two! (Angus) (looks at his wrist for the date but there's no watch) So we're pretty excited to see it ourselves.
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Liars: (Angus) That's how we tend to work in all these different aspects when we work with other people. So if you know the person - and we DO - and you have confidence in them, often times it's best to just let them do it. It takes a little bit of weight off of our shoulders and it becomes a much more interesting thing with their interpretation of the song.
V V: Because to a certain extent you can just trust another artist to go ahead to make a piece...
Liars: (Angus) ABSOLUTELY. You know, Julian, before he was in the band, was doing a lot of our visual stuff and the merch and did everything like that and did the record cover of "Fins To Make..." EP. And that was the same scenario - I went to school with him - I know what he does so that was just like "Do it, and I know you can do it (please)." (Julian) It feels good to work like that too. When someone just says, "I know you can do it, just give it to me when it's done."
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Liars: (Julian) But deadlines are good. Deadlines mean that you have to finish it. Sometimes things can just go onnn forever unless you have this finish time. I like the deadline.
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Liars: (Angus) Oh yeah. It was mostly self-imposed. The record company gave us a date and asssured us that if we finished it by that date then it would be out in September of last year (2003). (Julian) We didn't think we'd meet our deadline. (Angus) Exactly. A lot of folks were very skeptical that we were going off to this house in the woods and we're gonna make the next Liars record. So people were skeptical but we pushed it and finished it and they were like, "Uhh, well, we could put it out now but it might not be the best idea because we're working on Depeche Mode" or something like that. So then we decided, all around, that it would be best to put it out when it did come out, in February 2004, because it gave us time to plan tours and also figure out how to actually play the music - which was not easy.
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Liars: (Angus) Right! So it took us an equal amount of time to learn how to play it as it did to record it.
VV: That's interesting... like "Do improv, then learn it."
Liars: (Julian) Right, it was - it was about one to one. It took about two months to record and the same to learn. (Angus) It was actually kind of frightening because we worked really hard and we had made this thing that we really loved obviously. And then we're told - "Ok, now you gotta turn it around and put it out there." Our first tour was to Japan. And they had only just got "(They Threw Us...)Trench". And we wanted to go and play new stuff - and it was frightening. And it was good for our first time there. So again, it was the deadline that helps.
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Liars: (Angus) The best part of work and keeping a band together and doing records is like in any other medium: it's just interesting to watch that lineage and that process. I don't think that we're necessarily aware what that is until... until you get to This point where we've made two records and you're like "Hmmm... they both start with 'They' and they have some similarities (laughs, and the big 'you know')" but I don't think there's anything conscious that we're trying to follow through with necessarily.
It's a work as you go process and I love that about this sort of stuff: it's that tying together of all these things - it's interesting.
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Liars: (Angus) One really coincidental day is May 1st: this day that we're kinda celebrating on this record, in all this folklore and history, the night of all the witches gathering (Walpurgisnacht)... and it's interesting that that day was the day that Bush flew to the aircraft carrier and declared that the war was over. We weren't... you know these things came and collided... and even though we were trying to isolate ourselves as much as possible... attacking another country... and we couldn't obviously be able to get that out of our heads. Again - with these ideas and this process - that the things that we make have to do with politics and things going around - but never directly and not something that we're interested in getting on a soapbox about.
But these things obviously affect us and affect the work. And then the topic that we chose happens to have a lot of similarities to almost ANY period in time. There's always a minority being persecuted, and there's always an idiom or idea that the majority hold which is often a little freakish, ya know? Especially when you're looking at it from the perspective of the minority. So! You can apply it to any time but obviously this period is one of those really crazy ones.
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Liars: (Julian) If you drown you're not a witch, if you float then you're a witch. It only works well for those who really are witches, I guess they can fly away once they float. (Angus) To us what was also more interesting was, like with any children's story, these elements are there. And in all childrens' stories, the moral applies to whatever situation is presented. And I think at first we just wanted to write a children's story and make that the record - and make it simple that way. We've been reading a lot of children's books too. Like "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" and "The Wizard of Oz"... they have this great imagery of good versus evil - they're simple yet really beautiful. And they tell you something. They have a moral, but from a child's perspective. (side discussion about L W W and the Aslan is God debate which doesn't affect how much everyone likes the books...)
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Liars: (Julian) THAT is the question I've been asking everyday! (Angus) That is the quandry! Because that is what makes good art: is self-indulgence. You know what I mean? If you're not really focused on the work that you're making... or if you're working on something (cradles a shape and holds it away from his body and looks up to the ceiling) but I'm not really paying attention to it while I'm making it but I'm paying attention to everyone else, what's the point? (Julian) Or else making it because "they" would really like this thing that you're making... (Aaron) Or what is 'humble art" really though? If someone paints pictures on the street - is that humble? To give something to people whereas you could be perfectly happy by yourself making music or painting requires some pretension - in thinking that someone is going to care about this at all, other than me.
(Angus) Yeah, it's weird. (Julian) This "self-indulgence" thing, I hear it so often and I'm thinking, "Well what is wrong with making a record because we want to make it?" Isn't that what it's about?
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Liars: (Julian) I don't know! That's a good question. (Angus) I don't know!! The "public"? The media wants to make it seem like we're purposefully trying to piss off our fans. And that's soo... just not true... that's more of a spin than just the idea that we wanted to make a different record (than "Trench"). (Aaron) And even the opposite of that then... it's like you just make a record to just please your fans? That's far more pretentious in the literal sense than making something that you think is good. Because if we made a record to please our fans that would be impossible - to assume that everyone is into the same thing, and assuming that we can pigeonhole people - I think that's way worse. (Angus) But we know what is good for us.
(Aaron) I think it's just a bad choice of words - especially coming from people whose job it is to use words so I don't really understand any of that, none of us do. (Angus) So yeah... yeah we're into it. We're into (shrugs) "self-indulgent" art work. (Julian) But not in the idea that's like "Fuck you" to everybody. I mean, you've seen that too. But this isn't. (Angus) No! (Aaron) That involves the same amount of assumption. It's... if you don't like it, then that's fine. But when you say these reasons that aren't really... I think that's when people kinda trip all over themselves. You can just say "I don't like it." That's totally acceptable, but to say, "I don't like self-indulgent music" is totally stupid. It's like, Iggy Pop is self-indulgent. It's like all these things which are "humble" - like it's the people's rock? Bruce Springsteen. Jesus! It's like the working man's rock makes a rock opera and does anyone... it's just a very stupid (set of assumptions?).
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Liars: (Aaron) Then meditating is pretentious. Eastern medicine is pretentious. (Angus) Or difficult mathematics. (Aaron) or anything which isn't aspirin or tylenol or TV. (Angus) If it's too difficult and you give up at it, that's fine. It's not something that we want to force down people's throats and say "look you're stupid if you don't hear it" - because we're stupid and we made it! I mean we're not rocket scientists or anything. (Aaron) But then they shouldn't draw a line between how they critique music and how the people they're trying to rebel against critique music because they both have no patience, if that's what they mean.
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Liars: (Julian) Some of the best records I've liked are the ones that I hated when I first heard them. Then you listen to them and all of a sudden - you love it. And then there's other ones that I've loved right off the bat, well 6 months later I just don't really listen to it anymore.
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Liars: (Angus) We owe a big debt to Williamsburg. We were there at a great time when there were a lot of good bands playing and a lot of shows put on that we got to play at. Now, we're touring most of the time and not really there and the other bands we're friends with are touring, so when we go back there's different people and... that's the problem with scenes... I mean anytime you get some buzz of a scene, then all anyone wants to talk about is Williamsburg. We were in Lisbon, Portugal, and we wanted to find out what's happening in Lisbon, and all they can say is "there's no bands in Lisbon, but Williamsburg!" Which is silly! Of course there's good bands in Lisbon.
V V: So did the sense of community impact your music and/or your success?
Liars: (Aaron) Oh yeah - but it's also that time and place and process. It's not like you go there and know it, but as the place evolves and there's people doing projects, it becomes that thing. (Julian) And it was inspiring! You go see what someone else has done and you get excited so you want to go home and make something too! So it's the people and the work and how it changes you and you give back and on and on. (Angus) Yeah - really inspiring!
V V: Anything else you'd want to add? Want people to know?
Liars: (Angus) Well... Aaron is a Raider's fan.
{ed note: This entire conversation spins out of transcriptionable control - the Raiders, the fan costumes, etc. Email Video Vision and we'll send you an audio file and you see if you can write it... very funny stuff...}
Interviewer: Catherine Lee
Camera: Michael Garver
Camera & Photos: Rodwin Pabello
Transcription & Editing: Catherine Lee
Special thanks: Matt Lawrence; Jeanne Klaflin; Bottom of the Hill
© 2004 Evans Media Group, Inc.
Related Links:
Mute Records
Liars site
SSion - Cody Critcheloe's site (Video Director: There's Always Room on the Broom)